Jim & Casper…
I’ve seen some buzz about this book and was intrigued so I read it on Monday. The premise is this: Jim Henderson, a Christian invites Matt Casper, an atheist to visit some churches with him and tell him what he thinks. So they jet around the country, mostly visiting churches that are far from representative (Saddleback, Dream Center LA, Willow Creek, Lakewood, Potter’s House) and then make generalizations about all churches that are predictably less than flattering.
I really liked this book. It was good to see the church through an atheists eyes. Some of his observations that I thought insightful were:
- his skepticism towards large churches. One of Casper’s questions that will stay with me for a long time was, “if the mark of a good university or college is a low teacher-student ratio, why do churches strive for larger pastor-attender ratios?”
- the observation that in very few of the churches did anyone outside of the “greeters” actually talk to them.
- his disbelief at the dollars spent on fog machines, lighting systems, massive buildings, etc.
- his bewilderment at the lack of conversation about what the church is doing in the community versus what they believe.
However, in the end, there was a lot that was pretty unfair about this book. It was a shallow treatment of the churches, where assumptions trumped actual research and a desire to understand.
If you’re a church-dork (like me), you’ll really want to read this book - whether you agree or not — because I doubt that you’ve ever heard what an atheist thinks of how we do church.
of course, just like the churches they looked at don’t represent all churches, Casper’s thoughts aren’t representative of all atheists.
i think we need to be careful as pastors and “church-dorks”, not to think we are “in touch” with culture just because we’ve read some books that tell us what our generation thinks. (unchurch, this one, etc.)
there’s no substitute for being friends with and hanging out with people who have not yet aligned themselves with Jesus. The only way to know where they are at in their church feelings, is to ask them.
Yes! Totally agree.
Casper’s is ONE voice, not THE voice for all non-churched people everywhere!
Just as my voice is ONE voice, not THE voice for all Christians, pastors, etc.!
this book should become a series…
don’t just take athiests to church.
take black people, gay people, amish people, jews, church drop outs, high school drop outs, catholics…
…then made into movies starring kirk cameron.
Eric you may have topped the commentary you had in the beer post with that one….
As for this I think its just someones stab at writing a book. Its like
(without reading it mind you and just taking Charlie’s notes) “book candy”
I mean come on…..They went to super Churches and in some cases (Like Willow..ect) Churches that trying to rethink where they are going and how to get there with their people. I find it interesting that they bypassed some successful (on the counts they discount) big players like Mars Hill.
Point 2 - As for not getting any hello’s - did it list how many hello’s they gave? Going to Church doesn’t necessarily mean its an instant ticket to people loving on you.
Point 4 - Again I would have to know how many services they attended each. To get an idea of what Imago, or Northwood’s does in the community you would have to inquire or hit a service where it is discussed. Just because you come to a Church on any given Sunday does not mean you are going to get a rundown of the fiscal year.
Some of the points do two things for me (Again without having read it) Tells me that Casper doesn’t even understand Church, and has that same flat atheistic argument. The college versus Church comment was very telling.
“because I doubt that you’ve ever heard what an atheist thinks of how we do church.”
i think the above is a pretty unfair comment.
I am really interested in this book. In fact, if it reveals what I think it does… I may probably recommend it to my [atheist] friends, for us to discuss. like you said above…it is just ONE atheist view, but it follows perfectly in line with the difficult topics and convo we have with our atheist friends about Christianity.