charlieDEAN’S Blog

Okay, for those of you following the “fancy water” thread…here’s the scoop…

The water is from a company called Ty Nant in Bethania, Wales. The kind I got at Willow is carbonated, and it tastes terrible! (but the bottles are cool-looking!)

Here’s a potential slogan: Ty Nant, the “official” water of Bill Hybels & Willow Creek Community Church

Okay, here’s my A2 wrap-up. Before I hit some of the highlights for me…I’ll say this (and I don’t say it lightly) — this is one of the best conferences I’ve ever been to. It’s definitely not for everyone, but if you’re a somewhat cerebral kind of person who likes to think deeply about church strategy and mission and you aren’t afraid to wrestle with ideas that you might not agree with, then this conference is for you.

Also, if you were intimidated by my super-long posts — this is the quick version…

Okay…so here’s the stuff rattling around in my head almost a week later…

• I became a fan of Craig Groeschel — his humility and passion for introducing people to Jesus was refreshing — I was challenged to ask myself — “Am I doing everything within my power to lift Jesus’ name high?”
• Frustration: it seems like one of the things I often hear in conferences like this is that the senior leader of the church really sets the tone — sitting in my seat….way down the org. chart — I can get frustrated at my lack of impact. Of course, I know that I need to be faithful and lead whatever I am currently leading…but it’s just a tension in me.
• Willow Creek still astounds me and here’s two of the big reasons: They aren’t afraid to have hard conversations, and to work through circumstances. This really came up in the conversation about the role definition between Gene Appel and Bill Hybels. (By the way…Gene Appel’s stock rose about 100% in my eyes at this conference.) The other thing that I really admire about Willow is that they have an honest, real understanding of their church, and their culture. They don’t seem to be blinded by their success and they don’t just assume they know all that there is to know about reaching seekers…they’re still hungry!
• Presence: Bill talking about what was attractive about Gene Appel, and he talked about how Gene didn’t want to travel. There are times where I think that I’d like to travel and speak, etc., but I was challenged that you can’t do ministry if you aren’t present.
• John Burke — he started out doing “postmodern” ministry — wrestling with truth claims, relativism and such…but found that the biggest problem most people have is their own brokenness. This is huge! I forget this sometimes and assume that people’s biggest struggle is intellectual.

There was other great stuff…but this is what I’m still thinking about!

We had a great weekend with the 20 or so people on the Nexus Retreat! Here are some of the highlights:

• minimal scheduling
• powerful, intimate worship on Friday night (the 90 minutes melted away in a hurry!)
• high ropes course
• 4 on 4, full-court basketball (Tara, Autumn & Leslie can play!)
• flag football (I was regretting it yesterday!)
• challenged by Brandon (“I’m far too content to be distracted by stuff!”)
• it was a beautiful weekend — chilly, but a perfect autumn weekend!

Wish you would have been there with us! I need a weekend like this every other month or so!

Don’t take my word for it…here’s what other people are saying… Justin, Beth, Courtney

I was away from home 15 of 31 days in October! That’s more than a guy with three young children (& one on the way) should be away. So I’m here now. If I’ve blown you off, or you feel disconnected…I’m sorry. Maybe you haven’t noticed…that’s okay too…

I was talking to someone the other day about these pastors who speak at all the conferences and by outside appearances seem to always (or at least often) be away from their churches. And I was lamenting that I don’t know if I could do it, because I start feeling so disconnected from the people that I minister to when I’m away. The person’s observation was that most of those pastors have great staffs, and they probably don’t really run ministries — their staff does. My staff (Chris at 15 hrs/wk) is taxed enough without me being gone all the time!

“You’re going to hell.” — Erwin McManus
(seriously — the audience questions are pretty intense about things like “how can you accept people and not confront their sin)

• I tried to get evangelical Christians to join me in this, but I couldn’t because we were so quick to nail people for their sin.
• One shift that I began to make is that people aren’t all that different, either side of the cross…for example, just because you’re a Christian doesn’t mean you’ve figured out money.

Where do leaders go when they’re broken? Do you have a “come as you are” culture for leaders in your church?

• We have a leadership process in place in our church — we are very intentional about shepherding and caring for those in leadership.
• At the same time, it’s really messy in terms of our leadership — the thing that’s been difficult in the past year, is that past patterns of sin creep back in, so Matthew 18 has been a huge reality for us in the past year.

If you were doing a series on the top cynicism of millenials, what would they be?

• there are certain issues that are “hot-button” issues that lead people to Jesus or turn them away. you have to understand the “hot-button” issues (in their culture: what about gays? what about other religions?) When you talk about these issues, you don’t use the shotgun approach and just spray sideways comments about…you use a rifle and go right after the issue honestly and directly.
• People aren’t necessarily interested in your answers to those questions, but more your attitude.

We (Christians, non-Christians) are NOT THAT DIFFERENT! (we don’t have it all figured out!!)

McManus: “So what you’re saying in the most diplomatic way possible, is that is you aren’t a ‘come as you are’ church, you’re not a church.”

It’s really not possible to teach the whole counsel of God in the course of year — especially when people come every-other-week. So you have to pick some themes and go after them. So we push people to get into Scripture themselves. (JB)

How do you handle divisive people?

• God doesn’t give us a method…he gives us his Spirit…and so we trust the discernment of the Spirit and observe the trajectory of their lives.
• I don’t know how to change a drug addict…I have a hard enough time knowing what God’s trying to do in my life…but I can help them take the next step — I can listen to the Spirit and follow his leading.

Topic: Create a “Come as you are,” Culture in Your Church

John Burke is the pastor of Gateway Community Church in Austin, TX. He wrote a great book, that has really influenced my thinking called No Perfect People Allowed.

When he started out, he though postmodern ministry was all about wrestling with truth, but he found out that the brokenness of people’s lives really became the key issue.

The culture is the most important thing about our church, but it’s the hardest to get a handle on because it’s so invisible in a sense.

Creating a “come as you are” culture in a postmodern world…

1. Create a culture of grace-giving acceptance (ask questions, listen, show mercy) “I can almost guarantee in our hyper-sexed culture, that there will be sexual problems in the lives of the people in your church.” “People naturally feel judged — what they don’t naturally get is Romans 8:1.” He doesn’t mean that you don’t deal with sin…but you start with grace first. (See the masterpiece, not the mud.)
2. Create a culture of dialogue — allow space for people to doubt…creating places for dialogue allows the Spirit to move and work within a person….”How long will the people in your church allow other people to doubt and question before they try to start forcing change?”
3. Create a culture of authenticity — when we play the game that says that we have everything together, we stay stuck

FUNNY! On stage, the bullpen sits there and asks questions to the people right after they speak. They all have bottles of water. Some of them have regular bottles, and some of them have these fancy-looking glass bottles. So I sent an email to the help desk and asked them how to qualify for “fancy water.” They just read out my name and my question, and announced that after the session, I have a free case of “fancy water.” HILARIOUS!!

How did you let people go that were on your dad’s ministry team?
There was a long transition period (2 years) where he ran the church in the day-to-day stuff but his dad was still around (he was 33 at the time).
Eventually there was an official baton-passing ceremony.
Then his dad traveled for a while, to distance himself, before coming back and taking a job at the church.

How did you “de-elder” people?
They basically fired the whole elder board, and then as they changed things allowed people to re-enlist, if they fit with the vision and values.

“It’s actually at the end of the change process, when you think it’s over that the emotional impact kicks in and it gets hard.” (Marc)

How do you lead as a couple?
Marc is the senior pastor — they aren’t “co-pastors.” She’s an associate pastor.
ERWIN McMANUS: you guys are a great example of why women in leadership is so critical and biblical

There’s a lot of questions about how they cooperate in all areas of life (as spouses, as coworkers, as parents, etc.)

to Nicole: Who’s changed more? You or the church?
The church — I’ve gotten some brains…but the church changed soooo much…but I’ve gotten more gracious.

What was the hardest thing to change?
Non-essential areas — or stuff that shouldn’t really be a “big deal” — his example is drinking alcohol.

What do you know now, that you didn’t know then?
The pace of change…it takes a lot of time.
People need understand why you change.

How do you balance your Pentecostal past?
We still believe in all those things…but, for example, we wouldn’t allow someone on the weekend to grab the microphone and speak in tongues (he references Paul in 1 Corinthians). We’ve had to teach people to think about seekers that would be visiting.

okay…their session was blase, but this bullpen discussion was pretty good, because all the guys on the stage have face similar change challenges!

Topic: Ministry…On Purpose or by Default

Marc is the pastor of CityLife Church in Melbourne, Australia. His wife Nicole is on staff as an assistant pastor. The unique element of this church is it’s seeker-friendly value in the context of being a Pentecostal church. His dad was the former pastor and it was pretty traditonal and so Marc & Nicoles have led through church through a huge degree of change.

“I wasn’t suprised that people were resistant to change styles of clothing…I was suprised at the emotion attached to these issues…it was very annoying.” (Nicole)

They are a cool team…he was raised in the church…reserved, talks kind of quiet…she, on the other hand, was raised as a German barbarian (her words, not mine)…outgoing and outspoken.

There isn’t anything groundbreaking in this session, althouh for the many pastors here dealing with moving from traditional, conservative contexts to more contemporary expressions I’m sure this is refreshing to hear that “I’m not alone.”

Is the seeker service dead?

• I don’t think so. Are we making changes to respond to reality? We are. (GA)
• Bill: we started this transition way before Gene arrived. We are not married to any methodology…if that means modification of a weekend service, we’ll do it.
• We are still seeker obsessed! We’re not making modification to reach less seekers (BH)

What does your gut tell you about mid-week 10 years from now?

• We’re comfortable not knowing — but people are still indicating that it plays a significant roles in their development, so we are still committed to it — we’re not sure if the neighborhood strategy will make it obsolete or not (GA)
• I look at New Community as one of the great tools in our arsenal to spiritual growth (GA)

Axis???

• In 1995, 20 twentysomethings would say that the weekend service “felt like Branson” — and they didn’t feel like the church was following technological culture trends. As Axis started growing — it had HUGE impact on the rest of Willow as they championed contemporary culture and values like serving.
• But the church began to get more savvy, more compassionate, etc., and there was less differentiation between Axis & the weekend service.
• Moving Axis into “big church” has created discomfort on both sides of the equation.
• We did not disband the Axis ministry.

How does the diversity value work into programming?

• I’m not happy about the lack of diversity on our teaching team (GA)

TO BILL: What is Bill leading these days? How does a pastor prepare to hand off the ball?

• My transition has nothing to do with me slowing down.
• It has everything to do with Willow’s influence expanding all across the world — it’s about exponential impact.
• Part of me right now is scared, because I gave up some stuff that I loved, but when you go to the next level you have to give up some things. Do I agree with every decision Gene has made? No — the big ones I do and the middle ones we talk about.
• I want the South Barrington campus to grow more than ever!
• Gene & I meet almost every single day! (Again, notice the time they devote to making sure that they’re on the same page — Admirable!)
• If this thing doesn’t work, let’s make sure that it’s not because Gene and I sinned against each other!

What about Gene made you “anoint” him?

• I was looking for God’s person who would share our values and chemistry. One of the advantages to the WCA was that Bill knew TONS of pastors. It wasn’t like he was fishing from a small pond.
• I was not looking for the leader who would come in and say “It’s my day, hit the road, Bill,” nor was I looking for the person who would be in my office every 45 minutes asking “What do I do now?”
• Every leader is going to come to point where they will have to figure out how to turn things over. The question is “Do I want to find someone who will make this thing take off?” or in some demented way “Do I want this thing to tank after I’m go, so I can feel good about myself?”
• Gene wanted to be HERE. You can’t lead and be gone all the time…there was a time when I (Bill) was HERE, and now I’m at a stage that I’m not. Gene was telling us that he didn’t want to be traveling at this time in his kids’ lives and that was important to us.
• Willowworld (I HATE this term) today is in the best shape it’s EVER been at any other time — “I like where we are.” — we don’t rest on a single personality

ERWIN — it’s our privilege to watch you guys work this stuff out with humility and substance and we respect you because you are willing to experiment in ways that other churches only dream about! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!!

WOW…I’ll be thinking about some of this stuff for a while!! Good stuff.

Topic: Can Willow Change?

Gene Appel is the lead pastor at the Willow Creek main campus. Prior to this conference, this was probably the session I was most interested in because Willow is going through a lot of changes…

“There ought to be something in every church service that you don’t like, but you ought to be mature enough to know that if it’s reaching somebody else, you can be okay with it”

Willow is 31 years old and they are transitioning and changes perhaps more than they ever have in their history.

My respect for Gene just went up — he’s making fun of the fact that he sounds like Barney Fife! (self-depreciation is so attractive to me!)

the chapter 2 vision (c. 2000) (locally, expanding more seats at the South Barrington campus because it was overflowing; regionally, expanding regional campuses; globally, training church leaders because when you can change a pastor, you can change a church and when you change a church, you )

Critical Factors in Willow’s Thinking Right Now:

1. willow is aging (avg. age is 48, was 38 ten years ago; avg. age of New Community is 51)
2. demographics are changing (increasing ethnicity in the community — 110,000 Asians in the community)
3. seekers are changing
4. people are BUSY
5. waning # of ‘Creekers’ who know their neighbors
6. deepening compassion value
7. 2004 spiritual growth survey that showed that as spiritual activity increased, love for God & people did not increase. It also showed that the most committed, biggest givers, most spiritually mature people were the people that were closest to leaving.
8. leaders spread too wide with margins too thin

Latest Thinking/Direction Willow is Leaning Toward (wet cement)

• weekend experiences where all people encounter the transforming power of God, wherever they are on the spiritual journey (not service, experience) (all people = ethnic diversity — we want each campus to reflect the demographics of their 20 minute footprint. it also means age diversity — hence the death of Axis) (they are challenging people to open Bibles because they want to reach not just seekers, but believers as well, at the same time) Is this working? attendance is up at all sites and baptisms are up
• launching a neighborhood life ministry where people belong, live & serve (what is we put most of the “church activities” within a bike ride of people’s homes — serving, small group, evangelism, etc.) “We’re moving from an affinity based organization…and we’re taking it to a geographic base
• developing a compassionate serving model intergrated with neighborhood life
• reframing spiritual growth from an activity based approach to a spiritual journey approach
• rebuilt organization structure — the key is Gene & Bill’s relationship that they’ve poured immense energy into defining (responsibility, authority, leading, etc.). Things are CLEAR between who’s leading whom and when. I admire this so much about Willow — they take the time, have the candid conversations about talk about a lot of “what ifs” before moving into new organizational structures. Gene knows that “Bill is for me,” and that when Gene wins, Willow wins.